Autocross deep thoughts

"LimitedTimeOnly @ opposite-lock.com" (limitedtimeonly) 11/18/2019 at 08:40 • Filed to: Autocross, Deep Thoughts

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Is it worth it to live out the fantasy of being a fast/skilled driver regardless of the cost?

Most people take something that they are willing to sacrifice when they go racing. With autocross in the street classes, the risks are extremely low. However, when that sacrifice comes, it is no less painful. This is true whether it is my GTI’s water pump (I can afford to fix it, but it was no less painful when I was told the cost before I realized that I should be able to get it replaced under warranty) or my friend’s street modified car with low miles that made windows in the engine on Sunday (he can’t really afford an engine replacement, fingers crossed that the manufacturer will allow it as a warranty claim, even though that may be a long shot).

Even having a dedicated autocross car gets expensive. To say nothing of a dedicated track car.

That is largely the monetary cost. There is also the opportunity cost of doing this rather than other things in life. Can I live with being a mediocre competitor because I don’t care to invest the time in maintaining and improving my skills, or should I stop completely?

Right now I plan to go to a couple of races next year. I plan to keep my rear sway bar on, even though it is so stiff that I DNF’d a run yesterday trying to bring the rear end out of a slide and missing a slalom cone, and I’m not sure if I should go any lower on the rear tire pressure. I think I’ll keep my autocross alignment, too, and maybe look for some used RE-71Rs to replace my almost dead set. But I hate being sloppy on course and only practice time (that I’m not willing to spend) will fix that.

All of that said, I managed to get second yesterday (because half of the field were on OEM tires) and should have second for the season (because few people came to enough events to really compete on points collection) in my class. It’s nice to be able to say that, but it doesn’t accurately reflect the number of people who really are better drivers than I am.

I should add that I did have fun on both days, which was the goal. The competitive feels were sneaking in, though.

Wrong Wheel Drive (41%) > LimitedTimeOnly @ opposite-lock.com 11/18/2019 at 09:07

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Nope, not worth it at all to me. I enjoy going to autocross and track days but never bother comparing myself to others. As soon as any sort of competition driving price aspect comes about, I'm no longer interested. I've been chasing some mechanical issues and just trying to save some money so I've gotten out of Racing entirely for a few months but I plan to get back into it soon. Track days are still the best use my time since I can get a whole autocross season worth of seat time in one event for only about 2-3 times the cost of one autox. But I definitely still love autocross on occasion for lower worry events to just have some fun. The while competition thing though is just an arms race that I can't afford. 

Arrivederci > LimitedTimeOnly @ opposite-lock.com 11/18/2019 at 09:08

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After trying twice (BRZ then S3) to have a car that I could both daily and use as a track/autox vehicle, I gave up. The BRZ in STX spec was unbearable for a daily, but good enough to win my club’s championship. The S3 was a phenomenal daily, but uncompetitive in BS and would’ve only gotten worse had I moved it up to SM.

So, I finally decided that I needed a dedicated car, so sold the S3 and bought a Lexus GS for a super comfy daily and just got a Miata .

E90M3 > LimitedTimeOnly @ opposite-lock.com 11/18/2019 at 09:17

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People ask me if I’ve tracked the M3, the answer is no simply because of the cost. Let me get back to what I was making 4 years ago and then I might change my mind. 

Tripper > LimitedTimeOnly @ opposite-lock.com 11/18/2019 at 09:38

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The time commitment has always been the biggest turn off for me with autocross. Seconded by the beating on my car in a parking lot, I know it’s a lot more than that. Still, you’re burning a full day for a few runs. Full disclosure I’ve never competed, just been my friends pit crew and got to cruise through the track a few times.

Track days while more expensive are more worth it to me as I can do once per year or once every few years.

I say all that being a guy who’s into driving, not racing. If racing is your thing, I don’t think there is a better way to do it than autocross.

However, all that you say is true. You’re either spending lots of extra cash on your DD or maybe even more on a dedicated race car. The happiest dudes at autocross seem (to me) to be the guys who drive their beat Miatas with everything they need for auto x stuffed in the car or in/on the trunk.

LimitedTimeOnly @ opposite-lock.com > Tripper 11/18/2019 at 09:49

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There are some “pro” level drivers who really are able to make their NB Miatas dance and look like they are having much fun. I’m not allowed to have a dedicated race car due to “clutter” and given my back-and-forth on the subject, that is probably for the best.

nermal > LimitedTimeOnly @ opposite-lock.com 11/18/2019 at 10:05

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I moved from doing a few auto cross events with a street car, to track days with a bike, to racing a bike. From my experience, t here is no substitute for gridding up for a standing start at a sprint race, even if you don’t finish well. I’d assume that wheel-to-wheel racing for even a Miata is the same. 

Do you simply want to drive fast in a safer environment for doing so? Do you want to just have fun and try to do your best against others in a competitive environment? O r do you actually want to win?

Just showing up is expensive. Winning is really expensive .

Tripper > E90M3 11/18/2019 at 10:07

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I did a track day in my E90. All said and done it cost me in the neighborhood of $2500!

Track fees, insurance, tires, brake fluid, brake pads, rotors, oil . (thanks single piston front calipers on an M3?!)

It was fun, but I wouldn’t do it again in a car like that.

E90M3 > Tripper 11/18/2019 at 10:10

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Yeah, that’s more than I feel comfortably parting with for something like a track day.

Tripper > E90M3 11/18/2019 at 10:13

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I’ve done it in cheaper cars, and even not my cars and was able to enjoy it a lot more. If you get out for a BMW CCA event or with another group it is MUCH cheaper.

Bryan doesn't drive a 1M > Arrivederci 11/18/2019 at 10:50

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Wow, you did it right. I've thrown rallycross into the mix now too, so who knows what car(s) I should be driving?

Arrivederci > Bryan doesn't drive a 1M 11/18/2019 at 11:16

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Thanks - I plan to use the NC in autox and HPDE, but I don’t expect to be competitive in the former. The NC is pretty outclassed now, so it’ll be more of a fun thing to do as I modify the car and just let it land wherever. Right now it’s on Conti DWS’s, so I’ll be running it on all-season’s in autocross, lol. I figure it’ll be a good opportunity to get reacquainted with the platform and not have to worry about being the fastest guy out there.

As for your rallycross question, here’s what I would do - find a buddy to go in halfsies with, find a car and co-drive it.

Cash Rewards > LimitedTimeOnly @ opposite-lock.com 11/18/2019 at 11:28

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Its a tough sell sometimes. I had it lucky years back when  the MINIs first came out. Great daily driver, incredibly competitive out of the box. The problem I had then was that they allowed slicks in stock class, which was expensive as hell and impossible to compete with. I eventually got rid of the mini for a GTI, but only took it out once. Wasn’t quite the same.

Now I have a boring commuter and an old, cheap Miata. So I started autocrossing again, but have had a similar crisis. My cheap Miata was a little tired, with 170k and 5 or 6 previous owners. So I could get new coilovers and get bounced to STR, or spend even more money on OEM springs over koni yellows, end up with a lesser car for more money, just to stay competitive in street class. I said fuck it. I’m running front and rear sway bars with adjustable endlinks and coilovers in STR. I was able to put in a sparco sprint on a fixed bracket to gain headroom and make the car more comfortable. Im not remotely competitive. New Miatas with $1500 coilovers kill me. But I enjoy the car more outside of autocross, and appreciate being out there more than not. It’s odd for me not to be competitive at something, but it’s still fun.

B_dol > Tripper 11/18/2019 at 12:29

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This is a gross overestimate of the cost(s) required. I doubt you killed a set of tires, brake pads and rotors in 1 day of track driving - if you did, it was likely due to running stock pads in a situation where race pads are required or ABS/TC over actuating the brakes. It wears components at a much faster level, yes, but costs are still amortized over more miles.

Costs in the range of $650-800 per day makes more sense. Source - running a similar BMW at a dozen events in the past few years. Add single day insurance to that if you want it.

B_dol > LimitedTimeOnly @ opposite-lock.com 11/18/2019 at 12:42

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Taking any hobby seriously begets a large time sink and bank account hit! Spend your time and money where you get the most reward - whether that is car related or not. 

Bryan doesn't drive a 1M > Arrivederci 11/18/2019 at 14:01

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I have a Neon ACR for rallycross and I use my STI for daily/autocross/HPDE. Rallycross is the only one where I’m stupid enough to try and be competitive.

Makah21 > LimitedTimeOnly @ opposite-lock.com 11/18/2019 at 17:07

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This is one of the better articles I’ve read in a while. So thanks for that. Truly the same arguements I have with myself every season. My participation has been dwindling the last couple years, M ost fun I have had was with a couple local gymkhana events just running race lines with style, no thought on competition or time.

  My first time 5 years ago was the most exciting since then I have poured close the to 15,000 into a 750.00 85 celica and countless hours in the shop on my third motor, third rear end and is totally out classed, 22re has been my on going nightmare. I do my own work so now it comes down to time spent and tortured fingers and limbs. But for some God awful reason I keep going on and on this downward or upward spiral called the 22re, I have not figured out yet. And that’s just one of my cars. And I could easily jump in a bone stock miata and best the celica, and my mustang on the first lap. But to own a miata would be like giving up on that never ending 22re torture. My mustang is just annoying to drive in a race that is meant for shopping carts and miatas.

Jordan and the Slowrunner, Boomer Intensifies > LimitedTimeOnly @ opposite-lock.com 11/18/2019 at 17:37

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My job is my biggest reason why I don’t want to really go. I drive 1000+ miles a week, and work outside on concrete/pavement. I don’t want to spend 7-8 hours outside, on the concrete/pavement on my day off, for 5 minutes of drive time at the most. On top of that, the closest events are Darlington and Laurens, which aren’t the standard locations and are still over an hour away. Those events are on Sunday, so it becomes: Get up when still  dark, drive 1.25 hours, stand in parking lot helping, make 2-3 runs, drive home 1.25 hours, arrive when dark again, go to sleep, wake up when dark on Monday, go to work, drive a lot, repeat. Even worse, most of the events are 2.5 hours away, again on Sunday.

Your region is a little closer at 2 hours consistently, but still, I don’t want to spend all of my Saturday/Sunday being reminded a lot of work.

LimitedTimeOnly @ opposite-lock.com > Jordan and the Slowrunner, Boomer Intensifies 11/18/2019 at 18:05

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Makes sense. What about Track Night type opportunities to go fast? Probably wouldn’t work for your schedule, either, as these are typically on Thursday nights at Concord Motor Speedway, not sure about Carolina Motorsports Park. I guess you’d have to take a day off.

I’m not up for track nights myself because of the increased risk to my daily, plus the increased costs for participation and consumables.

Jordan and the Slowrunner, Boomer Intensifies > LimitedTimeOnly @ opposite-lock.com 11/18/2019 at 18:09

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CMP is also Thursday. I want to go to one, but I’m waiting until they repave it, which apparently is happening. Currently it will destroy a set of new tires in a day.

DutchieDC2R > LimitedTimeOnly @ opposite-lock.com 11/18/2019 at 18:27

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Unfortunately, AutoX isn’t as popular here as it is in the US. I had been talking to an organizer of a bunch of event to do an AutoX here, but we got stuck on location and couldn’t figure out a place soon enough.

I’d love to participate, but I’d probably go the route of buying a decent daily and buying a separate AutoX car like a CRX/EG Civic or something. My job schedule probably wouldn’t let me participate in 100% of the events, but I’d love to give it a try.

One other thing I’d love to visit and/or organize as well would be a Gridlife type event in Europe. I’d really enjoy that, adding all sorts of aspects of motorsport in one event. Maybe some day. 

BmacIL > LimitedTimeOnly @ opposite-lock.com 11/18/2019 at 22:06

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I’ve been lucky that the immense and relatively inexpensive aftermarket, plus interesting SCCA classes have allowed me to make my ‘15 Mustang a truly amazing dual purpose car. It’s quite firm but not at all harsh on the road, and I DD it. 80k miles now. It’s not the best starting platform for an autocross car with its size and weight, but I’d challenge anyone to say a well sorted CAMC car isn’t a fricken blast to drive.

If the competition is is what drives you, stick with it. If you just want time on course driving at fun speeds, consider other options. 

LimitedTimeOnly @ opposite-lock.com > BmacIL 11/19/2019 at 07:07

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The competition is an important part for me, helping me to know what is possible. My challenge is when it becomes all- important and ruins the fun.